Melissa’s Place

Right now I will say that I think the government is responsible for it’s citizens and if a blood transfusion will save their lives they should be given one. The babies can’t make their own choice on the matter so I think its good that the medical professionals are stepping in.

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Also, just wanted to add a note on the scriptures cited. I asked a JW in Scotland this question and he gave me those same scriptures. I told him that I was always under the impression that they were talking about a pagan tradition of drinking blood. Does anyone know if this is right? Anyways, his reply was that he eats black pudding (blood of a sheep).

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Ok, as a FORMER JW, I can tell you that they believe blood transfusions are bad. They believe in not partaking anything that can “contaminate” the human body.

I do NOT think the government has the right to intervene. It seems like the government is in everything nowaday. How far will it go? I know and understand that the babies cannot make their own choice in the matter, but that is why they have parents. It is the parents choice, and the government interfering is wrong. If something happens to the babies, the parents will forever have to live with that. Now, they will forever live with the fact their children are “dirty” because of the transfusion.

That is what makes Canada and the US so different. A few years ago, there was a lady that had her feeding tube removed by her husband. She was in that condition for years. Her parents tried to get the government involved but they are not allowed to. Her feeding tube was eventually removed, and she died. Since she had no will, her husband was the one who made the decision.

I know good and well what it is like to lose a baby. It is the worst feeling in the world. However, the government does not need to get involved.

What’s next? Are they going to come into my home and tell me what to eat? That I need to exercise? Are they going to knock the door down and make sure my daughter is put to sleep on her back? Where does it end?

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Also, why doesn’t the government get involved in child abuse cases? It IS in the child’s best interest, however, so many of them die because of neglect. Where’s the government?

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So the government should take children out of their homes to save them from abusive parents but not give them blood to save their lives because their parents won’t allow it?

Although I do agree that the government in both the USA and Canada need to do more than they are to protect children from abusive homes but to generalize and say that the government isn’t doing anything is wrong. We never here about the good endings, they don’t make the news, only the tragic ones do.

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I really have mixed feelings about this issue especially since that news article does not explain the details. My first reaction was that those babies lives are the most important and they should be given blood transfusions but as I read where the article states that there are alternatives to blood transfusions but does not state if those alternatives were given as an option. A blood transfusion does not guarantee saving those babies lives and neither do the alternatives such as medications to raise hemoglobin levels. Now the father is suing the government for infringing on religious rights. This puts the government in a difficult situation.

SJ, I agree that the government needs to protect it’s citizens but from what and who? Of course the most obvious would be terrorists and criminals but lately it seems to be protection from the parents, such as punishing parents whose children are obese. I have read too many stories from around the world where child molesters are only given a 1-3 year prison sentence only to repeat the same crime and given another 3 years in prison! The government does not seem to be doing well at this! Well, then there is Utah who are talking about giving child molesters the death penalty, but that’s a whole other debate.

Now for the government not being aloud to interfere with medical issues in the United States is not true. Last year there was a case where a 16 year old boy who had cancer decided that he wanted to homeopathic treatments and his parents supported him in that decision. A court order was placed on him to recieve chemotherapy and there were threats to take him away from his parents! That is the worst case of government control I have heard of. Also with me, under Idaho law I had to get tested for gestational diabetes. I didn’t want to because I didn’t have any symtoms and I try to avoid needles as much as possible.

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I agree. It seems like they focus their energy on other things. Maybe there are cases where the “system” has worked for some. But for others, it is too late. This story was in the news last night.

http://fox61tv.com/first/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1218&Itemid=39

Why? They have a confession. Why would they allow it to be thrown out? Because he didn’t have an attorney present? So what?

How can these defense attorney’s sleep at night? How can someone defend a person like this?

Anyways…this is off topic. The point I’m trying to make is that the government interfering does not always have a good outcome.

Good topic, Melissa.

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Yeah, the more government gets involved usually the worse the outcome.

It is interesting to hear everyones opinions!

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Wow!! I have missed a lot during my illness. Doctors will want to live by the Hippocratic oath and feel obliged to save the infants.

There are some groups in the world that believe that twins should be killed (South America) and babies who are born with teeth should be fed to crocodiles (Africa) . Then there is that issue of female circumcision or female genital mutilation (Some Muslims). People do these things based on their religious beliefs.

If a person following those traditions were to come to the USA or Canada, they would not be allowed to mutilate their daughters or kill their infants. A man was recently put in jail for genitally mutilating his daughter in the USA.

A government has no right to interfere with a person’s beliefs. However, a government has a responsibility to protect its citizens. If I were in the government, I’d want to protect the infants just like I wouldn’t allow a Muslim to stone a prostitute to death.

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This is a very touchy subject for me for different reasons: I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness, I have gone through the pain of losing a child on more than one occassion, and I have had a baby in the NICU. We can all sit here and say whether we believe the practice is right or wrong, but unless we are in that situation, we really can’t say what we’d do. As a mother of a premie, I can’t even begin to describe the sadness, resentment, anger, and many other emotions of having your newborn baby way from you in very delicate health. When all you do is sit there, and stare at their chest going up and down, and stare at the monitors.

I pray that none of us will ever find ourselves in that situation.

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ok……I have read everyones input..

Yes this can be a very delicate situation!

I have a friend who was brought up Jehovahs Witness…

yet when her baby was born very sick & needed a blood transfution …she went for it…

she was told she could not have anymore Children..
These gifts are only on lone to us from God above & we have to try make the decent choices….The right choices…”Which I believe she made”
Rose..

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Yes, I can understand this being a touchy subject for people but I don’t know how any mother wouldn’t want to do everything she could to save the life of her child/ren. Esme, seen how you have been in a similar situation what would you do? If one of your children needed a blood transfusion, would you allow it?

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I am sure Esme would allow this, as she doesn’t hold to that belief but the point she was making is that it is a decision the parents need to make and they would have to live with the consequence of the outcome of that decision instead of it being something the government decides. Am I right, Esme?

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Yes, that is correct.

I feel bad for the parents. Simply because this is not what they wanted and now they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. This is against all that they believe and they believe serious consequences will occur. Their church will probably discipline them and have them expelled. I hope not, because it is not their fault.

If it were my child(ren), I would do anything! Give my blood, give your blood, ANYTHING. Children are innocent beings. If we decide to bring them here, we should fight for them and do whatever it takes to make sure their physical, mental, and spiritual needs are met. They did not ask for this, and it is heartbreaking seeing these kind of stories.

My mother has a Medical Directive and she purposely left my name out for that same reason. She knows that if she needed a blood transfusion, I would say yes, even though it’s against her religion and her wishes. It breaks my heart to know that she feels that way, and I have no say in it.

Life is precious…worth fighting for.

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The article says:

[The parents, who risk being shunned for life by the church because their children received the transfusions, can now plead they abided by the blood ban, but couldn't stop the government, she said.

"They can hold their head up among the Jehovah's Witness community and say, 'We protested, we went to court."'

The church and the parents know deep down the government will step in to save the children, even if it means blood transfusions, Guichon said. ]

so to me it seems like its a win-win situation … the babies have a better chance at life and the parents can still practice their religion. Esme, I know you don’t hold those beliefs anymore but I was just curious because you said that unless someone was in that situation you don’t know what you would do. I just can’t understand why someone wouldn’t. It would be kind of similar to you giving your child a blood transfusion even though you know your mom would disprove of it. Seriously, I am just trying to gain a better understanding of this.

Also, the government only took custody of the babies to give them the blood transfusions, they were giving them back to the parents anyways.

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Also, the government is responsible for it’s citizens and they too have consequences from it. If it were the other way around people would be protesting that the government should have stepped in. Back to the point about Child abuse, should the government just leave the parents to “live with the consequence of the outcome of that decision” (to beat or even kill) their children and not step in and try to do something about it?

We complain the government isn’t doing enough and then we complain that the government does too much.

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I’m sorry. I guess I should speak clearly. What I meant by, “unless someone was in that situation you don’t know what you would do.”, was that unless we were JW’s, and in that situation, we wouldn’t know what to do. I know I wouldn’t know what to do if I were a JW and faced with that decision. I no longer believe that, but I know the parents must have been struggling with what to do.

Blood transfusions is a serious “sin” according to the JW’s, and even though it seems like a no-brainer to us to do whatever it takes to save our children, they don’t see it like that.

I’m glad the end resulted in the babies being saved. Like I said earlier, why bring them into the world, if you’re not going to fight for them?

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thanks for the clarification:) I think the main question here was government control and to me it seems like the parents won’t be punished beecause it was against their will.

Although I do have another question, can parents give their blood to their children, seen how the child already has the parents blood so it won’t be “unclean” ? I think I already know the answer which would be no but thought I would ask anyways.

This is like the most popular topic on here.

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Yeah the main issue is government control and how far it should be able to go.

This is off topic but the baby’s blood does mix with the mother’s blood sometimes which is why me and most RH - mothers need to get the RH immune gloubin shot. I think that’s what it is called.

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Even if it’s the mother’s blood, they do not allow it.

Melissa’s right, that’s why we have to get the RH shot while pg. If not serious complications can arise.

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I know all about the RH thing, I was just stating that we pass on our blood through our children.

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